Twilight Discussion, For or against? Options

[Another Morning]

Alright, so I know there are topics for Twilight fans, and that's fine, have fun. Since I am not a Twilight fan, I tend to avoid them, because I don't want to storm into a place for people to talk about the book/movie they like and trash it. So this is a topic for fans and non-fans to discuss what they love or hate about the books and movies.

IF YOU FEEL VERY STRONGLY ONE WAY ABOUT TWILIGHT AND DISLIKE PEOPLE NOT SHARING YOUR OPINION ABOUT IT, THIS TOPIC IS PROBABLY NOT THE BEST FOR YOU.

Just getting that out of the way.

And now, I rant.

Okay, so I've already said that I don't like Twilight, but I've never really said what I dislike about it. Well...here is my in-depth view of the series and the movie.

First of all, as it has already been pointed out, the things in Twilight are not vampires or werewolves. My dad suggested I refer to them as "glampires", and I rather like it. There are some things I can let slide, but on the whole, I'm a big fan of the original vampire. Must live on HUMAN blood (but they don't go OMFGCRAZY when somebody gets a papercut, hint hint Meyer), weakened/harmed by sunlight (sparkling does not factor in at all), must sleep in native earth, cannot enter homes uninvited, fetid breath (they are CORPSES, people, it's only a glamour that helps them lure in victims), unable to kill themselves (sorry Edward, no manipulation or emotion abuse for you), repelled by garlic and the cross, don't show up in mirrors, killed with fire-hardened ash stake to the heart or with flames, obedient to their master who created them, all that jazz. And, most important of all, vampires are MONSTERS. They have no soul. They cannot fall in love, they don't care about people. Humans are food to them, nothing more. And as monsters, they should be killed. That's the best kind of vampire to me. Like I said, I can be lenient on some of those things, but when you totally disregard all of them, you don't have a vampire anymore. Same with the werewolves. If you want to change things so bad, just make an entirely new species. And I do feel really bad for the Native American tribe that had their heritage and mythology so blatantly warped and ignored.

Second, the characters in the story, for the most part, I either hate or don't care about at all. Edward and Bella, for example, I hate. Edward is a possessive, abusive stalker who controls Bella with threats and displays of power. He takes the engine out of her car so she can't see her friends, and he threatens to kill himself if she ever leaves him. Bella doesn't exist outside of Edward, even the entire second book is just her complaining that he's gone, she is supposed to be all mature and old for her age, even though she acts like a total teenagers, running headfirst into doing anything as long as she can stay with Edward, and she complains all the time about being such an outcast when it's actually mostly self inflicted. She looks down on any classmates that try to be nice to her. All we hear from her regarding Edward is how beautiful he is, she never mentions liking him for his personality (not that you can blame her, he doesn't really have much of one). For both of them, most of their character traits we only know because we're told what they're supposed to be, they never actually display them. The other characters all have as little personality as Bella and Edward. There are a few that I like, though. Jacob is actually cool when he's not doing anything related to Bella, and Charlie made a good effort to be there for Bella, even if she didn't really acknowledge or appreciate it and just dismissed him all the time. Billy was cool, too, and Rosalie had her moments. Movie-wise, all the people at her school seemed much more cool and interested than Bella did, I would have rather watched a movie about them. I feel bad that they're all trapped in such a horrid book/movie.

Finally, even the writing itself isn't good. Smeyer is repetative and never leaves just one adjective where three will fit, some of which don't even make sense. Her purple prose turns what could be dramatic situations kind of funny. The stories all seem like she made it up as she went, and I lose interest quickly in whatever is going on. She goes into intense detail about things nobody cares about, like how Bella eats her breakfast, but when it comes to things like actually developing characters and relationships, she skips over it.

The movie bored me to tears. Even with the hilarious RiffTrak by the MST3K guys, it still felt like it lasted 8 hours.

This being said, I hate when people dis a book or movie without reading it, so let it be known that I have read the first the books and half of the last one, and seen the movie twice (first time without the riff, second time with). So I'm not just assuming any of this.

Now, discuss away! =D

[P-girl]

Well said.

I admit, for the books themselves, I can't tell what I feel, since I haven't read them. I can, however, show my dislike for the writer, who shows utter disrespect for ancient myths, (Prides herself into not doing any research? Oh hell no. And let's not forget her next project, which involves Sirens, which she's going to portray as Mermaids *Is a Sad Greek Mythology fan* Why can't they ever get that right?) Classic literature, (Dissing Jane Austen, Shakespeare and other legends in favor of her book? Oh HELL no.) and has shown to not handle critisism well. (From what I've heard, her brother filters her E-mail, making sure she doesn't read the bad ones, and let's not start with the Midnight Sun fiasco *Thumbs down*.) for me, an aspiring writer who thinks research and respect are one of the most important things (Especially on the internet where it's often the first victim (Together with Grammar and Spelling)) and learned that you've got to take any sort of critisism with your head held high, those things are big Nonos. Also, a little humility never hurt anyone.

That's my say in it.

[Jahnavi]

{Please excuse my laziness; I'm copy-pasting a lot of what I posted on the the 'New Moon!' topic (and a lot of that was copied from the shoutbox, when I was ranting with P-girl... xD).}

I like the series (and I'm sorry, but I get SRSLY irritated when people think it's a "saga"), and I'm not going to go around saying it sucks; that wouldn't be right, because I've read it and on the whole, I do kinda like it.

But I really don't like how she's changed original mythological stories and creatures. Those legends have been built up around the world over centuries and while it maybe alright to tweak them slightly, I don't think it's right to completely re-write them. Maybe S Meyer thinks she's being innovative, but I don't agree with that aspect of her stories at all.

And my main problem with Bella and Ed's is romance is, they're always "ZOMG, I would so die for you...!" towards the other person, but what do they ever really do together? Isn't the point of a relationship to enjoy the other person's company? (Correct me if I'm wrong, that's just how I always viewed it.) Some complicated "conflict" always comes between them, and then they get Edward gets all angsty, and insists Bella can't leave the house, or she will somehow be fatally injured, and then she rebels against him, and then Jacob swoops in (though I have to admit, he's one of the few characters I really like in this series) and he just tightens the tension between Ed and Bella... What's the point of being in a romantic relationship if all you ever do is worry that the other person is going to die, or something? That is something you should be worried about, but that shouldn't be all you think about... When was the last time Edward and Bella ever had fun together?

Her main character's aren't realistic in my opinion. Especially Edward. I hate how clingy/possessive/over-protective/paranoid he is about Bella, and yet she puts up with it? In an actual relationship, wouldn't that be a matter of concern, not something that intensifies your love for the other person? In an actual relationship, wouldn't that be a matter of concern, not something that intensifies your love for the other person? I mean, I can understand learning to love your partner's flaws, but I find it kind of extreme in this case...

Anyway, that's why I like New Moon the most out of all four books. It had the most realistic plot, and something interesting actually happened (Edward leaving Bella), which S Meyer used to bring some other characters into light. You get an insight into so many other characters in that book, it's much better than "See, first Edward did this, then Bella did that... Then Ed...then Bella...".

And it's a kind of peeve of mine that S Meyer has developed some of the background characters better that the main ones. (Jacob, Alice, Rosalie and Emmett are some of the characters I really like in this series, yet they all get less and less focus.) And to some extent, that doesn't matter too much, but then when you get so much of Isabella and Edward's poorly-fabricated characters in comparison, you find that a pretty big flaw in the story.

Though, after that whole rant, I must admit, even though I hate her main characters, S Meyer does have a flair for writing. She kept me hooked onto the story (for the most part) regardless of what I felt about the characters. She does keep up a nice momentum with the plot (at least for the first two books) and I've often found that I tend to lose pace in my writing, so I do admire her for that. She's a talented writer, I just think she needs to work on her stories a little more.

This post has been edited by Jahnavi: Aug 3 2009, 4:51 PM

[SuperChick]

ok in my opinion I agree w/ both iam a fan but not crazy.... her books should have more of the horror vampire blood , killing people ect. one of the things i dont like is that Edward is like Bella's world and she needs to have other friends outside of the Cullens unlike Jessica Angela Mike / Ben she needs to stop being so revolved around Edward ...Do i make any sense ? I like the books i've read 123&4 before the movie came and really that's all i have to say

[P-girl]

You're making perfect sense, it's a common complaint I hear: Bella's willing to drop EVERYTHING for Edward. Meyer, if you want to portray Bella as smart and *Snicker* independant..... you're doing it wrong.

[Another Morning]

Exactly, SuperChick. Like I said, Bella doesn't really exist without Edward, and that's not romantic to me, that's sad and worrying.

[SuperChick]

yea that's not romatic at all good to know i make sense

[MorriganAensland]

Romance is something dealing with finding emotional support while going out there and *doing* something.

Bella's whole life revolves around Edward. She has no connections to anyone else in Forks and just wants to be with him. Honestly? That makes for a dull protagonist in my book. Once the "spice" of a relationship is lot, you have to try to regain it by doing lots of stupid stuff and...

Well, Bella does a *lot* of stupid stuff while simultaneously shoving Morman values down our throats.

[P-girl]

Check this out, someone actually sued Myers for Plagiarism:

*Warning, site linked to might be deemed slightly offensive in it's language*

I share Topless Robot's opinion. What's there to plagiarise? It's a generic, unoriginal story that every second-class writer can come up with. (I believe I have some similar stories archived on my drive.... and never finished because I grew away from Wish-fullfilment and towards Slash literal maturity.)

[winxclubrox23]

Finally! I can rant in peace! And I'll do it in only several words:

Twilight is cheesy.

There, I said it. I read the first book before the movie came out, and I'll admit, it was alright. It wasn't the best book I've ever read, not even close, my god. And it wasn't the worst either. So I decided, what the heck? Watch the movie just for kicks! So I did. Wow, did they ever butcher it. I thought Eragon was bad. This surpassed it by far.

[W.I.N.X]

Okay. Twilight? DO NOT WANT. Abusive relationahips? DO NOT WANT. Pedophilia? DO NOT WANT. Bad, flowerly writing with 'big' words that are overused and used incorrectly? DO NOT WANT. Flat Mary-sues? DO NOT WANT. Anti-feminism? DO NOT WANT. Sparkling vampires? DO NOT WANT. Lust passing off as love? DO NOT WANT. An author who thniks 60 and 70's music is crap(and mentions this in the books!) and Muse is good? DO NOT WANT. Full of herself author who thinks her characters are better than those in Wicked Lovely(an awesome book, read it if you haven't), The Princess Bride(SMEYER!), ROMEO AND JULIET?! DO. NOT. WANT.

As you can see from my caps abuse, these are just some of my problems with The Twilight SERIES(NOT Saga, dammit. SMeyer uses big words incorretly. She says something in the books along the lines of 'I tried to see the positive side of that statement rather than the chagrin.' WRONG!!!11one).

This post has been edited by W.I.N.X: Aug 6 2009, 6:15 AM

[winxclubrox23]

Oh, oh, I have a whole other rant for the sparkling Edward part...

[Another Morning]

I remember when my friend first told me about the sparkly vampires. It was just like they do in movies, where you start laughing but then see the expression on the person's face and then you're like "oh my god she's serious" and then your laughter almost turns into bitter sobs.

[P-girl]

Same here. Where did the idea come from? All I can think of is the way Shoujou Manga tends to portray pretty bishonen boys (Y'know, with the rose-petals and the sparkles and the whatnot.)

[Another Morning]

Supposedly, the whole thing was inspired by a dream she had where two people were sitting in a field, and one of them was sparkly, and he was a vampire and the two were talking about how they had fallen in love and this was a problem. Sometimes dreams do make good inspirations for stories...but sometimes they'd just random crap you make up when you're asleep that make for amusing stories to tell your friend the next morning but are otherwise best forgotten. Sparkling vampires go under that second category.

And I heard about her being sued. From what I'm reading, the claims are fairly generic. "She wrote a vampire romance and so did I! PLAGIARISM!" This Jordan lady was hardly the first to do it herself. She might as well sue Smeyer for printing her books on paper because OMFG SHE DID IT FIRST.

[P-girl]

Same here. So many Vampire Stories (Bad ones) start like that. I mean, I swear I saw a story like that in my mothers trashy Harlequin Books.

[Another Morning]

Exactly. Pretty much every vampire romance is the same. Girl meets vampire, girl and vampire fall for each other, and either A. girl becomes vampire too or B. boy becomes human enough to eliminate all problems with the match in the first place huzzah for them. There is exactly ONE vampire romance that I like (Buffy and Angel were actually interesting and didn't make me rage), and otherwise I just feel like they're doing it wrong. :/

[P-girl]

Well, I'm trying out a vampire romance.... but it's not the brunt of the story and since both of them start out as the undead, the whole 'ZOMG! You're a vampire! That's like, soooo cool, being a lost soul and undead and cursed and all!' can be skipped [/shameless plug]
....
Sorry, that sort of vampire fangirlism irks me. Like I said, VAMPIRES DO NOT MAKE GOOD/COOL BOYFRIENDS! Please stop treating them like some sort of rockstars/fashion accesory.

[Another Morning]

Alright, vampire/vampire romance is also acceptable when done properly. It is the people who are like "Vampires are AWESOME I want to BE ONE" that grate on my nerves, too. Vampires are dead, they're corpses. They have bad breath and pasty dead grey skin. They don't have a soul. Why would anybody want to be that?

Reminds me of an RP character of my mom's she was partially a vampire (she still had her soul, and she eventually got better), and one of the annoying teenage characters in the group was always like "KIRBY CHANGE ME PLZ" and my mom's character was like "Shut up no." It amused me XD

[W.I.N.X]

God, you have no idea how hard I laughed at that last bit AM. Lulz ensured.