Episode 13 discussion, I suppose wkw forgot about this Options

[P-girl]

*Thinks of him still wearing his hat*


Hot damn, that's like.... the funniest thing ever.

[wkw427]

Giant hat!.. or tiny hat.. either way, it is win

[wkw427]

My thoughts as I watch:


No notes, it was too epic. It had the FEELING of a season finalie, no cliffhanger, the PERFECT ending for a mid season ending in any seiries Ive seen, ever, period.

[winxclubrox23]

Omg! That was an epic episode! Best so far in my opinion! The fight with the Black Circle Wizards was awesome. Seemed like it could have been a season finale fight.

Then there was the end. Omg. My heart was hurting for Riven! Poor guy! Gosh, like I can't even describe how badly I felt for him. I accually felt like crying. Sheesh and now there's the break. I'm not going to make it guys!

Haha...ignore the other episode 13 discussion that I created. I looked for like 10 minutes for this one but couldn't find it...

[Bloomwinxmagic]

I liked it...... especially the Wizards, who seem to have at least some sort of comradery going on. (That scene where Gantlos saved Ogron had that vibe, I mean, he really gave it his all.)

......

But if those four aren't back for part 2, I'll be really, really pissed.

me too

[Bloomwinxmagic]

oh and also poor Riven

[P-girl]

Poor Riven?! The guy goes with Musa to a record-label to chase her dream, she's all nervous and insecure, and he insults her singing talent. That's not poor Riven, that's poor Musa, who deserves way better.

[bubamara]

I would say poor both. He is used to having her around and when she suddenly wants more, he is insecure and thinks he will loose her, so he acts like a jerk. He doesn't do that because he is mean, just because he is, well, insecure, and crazy afraid of loosing her.
I'm not justifying him, he still is a jerk, but I'm saying he's is kinda complicated person, and his actions hurt him as well.

And I agree, if he wants to be happy with musa, he has to change, and, if I'm not mistaken, this "couple drama" is kinda around that.

This post has been edited by bubamara: May 14 2009, 7:40 PM

[P-girl]

Just all the more reason those two shouldn't be together. They hold each other back. Musa needs someone who supports her dreams, tells her she's good at singing, someone who's secure about himself. Same goes for Riven.

[bubamara]

Maybe. But maybe that someone else wont understand Musa/Riven insecurity, maybe they will have to change even more to go along with these other persons... I can imagine Jazz helping Musa with singing, but I can also see him turning her into someone else. Changing her personality, making her be less sensitive about some other things (like, get used to people envy you part). So, its compromise either way. The question is weather you are willing to change some thing, and is the reason why you change yourself worth it. (like, musa had to learn to trust people)

[P-girl]

And a change in personality is bad? It's called Character development, and can be really good if it's handled well. And what if he makes her more secure? That's a good change.

Right now, Riven only holds her back. Career-wise AND personality-wise.

[bubamara]

I agree that change of character is good. I was saying that riven was the one that "forced" musa to start to trust people. She had to start to trust him... (the whole charmix thing)
What I am saying is that they are willing to make these changes for each other, and I'm not sure that they would make them for anyone else.
I say that because of Riven (well, because of her wanting to be with him) Musa became more open.
I say that because of her Riven started to be more friendly and better person.
He does hold her back careerwise, but I'm not certain about the personalwise part. And I agree that he has to change for their relationship to work, but I just think that, if they manage to do that, its gonna be much better for both of them, then to settle with something mediocre.
Now, in the real life this probably wouldnt work, simply because people dont change, no matter how much they want to.
If someone gets with witches like riven did in s1, they will remain like that. But even in real life I say that people should try, at least a bit before they give up.
And since this is cartoon I would like for them to work out their problems.

This post has been edited by bubamara: May 14 2009, 8:28 PM

[P-girl]

.... Did you just say that people in real life don't change, no matter how they want to?
That's...... and I'm sorry to say that, but that's stupid. People change. Even more so then in Cartoons. It's what people do. They grow up, mature, and develop their personality.
And where, in any of their encounters, did Jazz ever force Musa to do something?

[bubamara]

Well, the problem with Riven is that he doesn't trust people. I can't see anyone like him in the real life changing into open and smiling person, no matter how much does he want.
What I meant actually was people can't change just because they want to. They can if the conditions that surround them change, or if some people help them, but if you are depressed person, you can't just wake up and say, oh, I want to go out, be happy and catch butterflies all day.

He didn't force her. I said I think, not I'm sure. Except for the whole "you have to get used to people envy you" part. That I didnt like. He seems to be even more cynical then Riven, and I'm not sure that Musa needs that.

This post has been edited by bubamara: May 14 2009, 8:37 PM

[P-girl]

So..... you're saying that people can't change because they want to? Well, there go hours of therapy and even more money down the drain for me.

People can change if they want to, they just have to work on it.

[bubamara]

I agree with that. If they work on it. But they have to be willing to work hard. And to have some motivation for that.
I'm just saying that the two of them are motivation for each other. And that no person can change just because they want it (and that implies without any work)

This post has been edited by bubamara: May 14 2009, 8:43 PM

[P-girl]

And Jazzon would even be more motivation for Musa, and I'm sure there's a cute girl out in the world for Riven to.
Of course relationships need work, but at the moment, they're looping. They had the exact same problems in every season. Even when they make up, next Season, they're at it again. They're in a loop, and I believe the way for that loop to end is to split ways.

[mightymarty2]

people can change it just takes time and a lot of it in some cases

[bubamara]

well, thats where we dont agree. I dont think that Riven would find anyone who will be willing to support him while he tries to change, and if musa isn't reason enough to change that no one will be.
As for her, I think she might be happy with Jason, but I think that would be settling with something mediocre. Like, she will be happy with her music, but that playful part of her, the way she acts with Riven would be gone. Again, I dont think its better for her to be with riven the way he is now, but if he opens a bit more, then it would be much better for her. (since she would have it all)

As for the loop part, dont know... They seem to make some progress. Not big one, but some. And she is really determined to end the "loop" this season. So, I hope they will work it out,

This post has been edited by bubamara: May 14 2009, 8:52 PM

[P-girl]

Never mind..... You want Riven and Musa to be together, I think it's unhealthy and stunting both their personal growth..... let's just leave it at that.