Thoughts on 4Kids' edits Options

[SpiderBraids]

Back much quicker than expected

As for the nameing issue it seems fairly standard practice in season 3 given Ophir/Nabu, Baltor/Valtor and not forgeting Layla/Aisha

Ophir/Nabu was an in-story thing, while the others were name changes through dubs. AFAIK, the change from Zing to Buzzy in this ep is arbitrary (Similar thing happened to when Layla called Glim "Blinky" in early S2)

3x21, and at the start of the episode, we have a training session:
Original: After Bloom lands on the ground, Bloom gets levitated up into the air, before spotting the anti-sunshine spells.
4Kids: 4K clips about Bloom getting levitated into the air, and we hear Stella yelling "I am so going to take you down Bloom!" as Bloom spots the anti-sunshine spells, so as to imply that Stella cast those spells.

Bloom's explosion is much more audible in the 4K dub than in the original.

Layla is still headstrong about her arranged marriage situation:
Original:
Mom: Layla, the tradition of Andros has always been that parents pick a partner for their children.
L: I know, but I don't care about tradition. Anyway I'm too young to think about marriage, and when the time comes I'll choose my guy.
Mom: Nabu's a wonderful young man Layla...
L: ...and I'm gonna marry him because I love him and... (is interrupted by Tecna arriving with her book) ... Sorry mom, gotta run.

4Kids:
4K switches the dialog around a bit, and makes Layla seem more headstrong about her situation.
L: I don't care about tradition, Mom. I'm too young to be thinking about marriage... Much less an arranged marriage.
Mom: This is not up for debate.
L: You're right mom, it's not. When the time comes I'm gonna pick who I marry.
Mom: Nabu is a wonderful young man...
L: ...and it's gonna be for love and passion and... (is interrupted by Tecna arriving with her book, doesn't say goodbye to her mom like in the original)

For completeness, the Nick version is closer to the original:
Mom: Aisha, I understand, but on Andros we have a tradition: the parents always choose a partner for their children.
A: I know, but I don't care about tradition. What I care about is love, and when the time is right, I wanna be able to make my own choice.
Mom: Nabu's a wonderful young man Aisha...
A: ...and if I marry him, it will be because I love him. (Tecna arrives with her book) ... Sorry mom, gotta run.

The Winx find Ophir on the ship, and Tecna cites the Valtor's box incident from a few episodes ago.
Original: We're actually shown a flashback to the incident (with the original dialog), before Layla says she agrees with Tecna.
4Kids: 4K cuts out the flashback, so it goes straight to Layla agreeing with Tecna.

As usual, transformations are edited down, though interestingly, the very tail end of Flora's fairy dust drawing animation (as in, after the flower drawing disappears) is retained.

The Winx and the Specialists get attacked (again), and 4K does some weapon editing, as well as fix an animation mistake.

Original: While Flora's looking at the inscription on the Golden Kingdom door, it cuts to Sky asking what it says. Problem is, the prongs of the weapon that's thrown at Sky are already in shot a few seconds before we should see it.
4Kids: 4K erases the prongs from the start of the shot, and then uses a light effect to show the weapon being thrown into shot. Throughout the ensuing fight, the prongs are always covered with a light effect. Picture

[P-girl]

Also, Layla/Aisha.... Let's just say that, before Nick, every dub except the Italian one called her Aisha.

[mightymarty2]

With most of these the reality is that it makes no difference the edits neither is better than the other. Excpet the removal of the early appearance of the spears.

I guess the flashback is good for a quick reminder of what had happened but for 2 episodes earlier it is less important. Unless you are showing episodes like nick is.

On the Layla and Nabu arranged marriage it seems to me that Nick is the best, followed by the original with 4kids in last place

[SpiderBraids]

Moving on to 3x22, and we see Riven fighting Ophir. 4K edits out one seriously violent moment...
Unedited: There is a half-second close-up shot of Riven's kick making contact with Ophir's mouth.
Edited: This shot is removed, so it goes from Riven doing his kick to Ophir flying off from the kick.

Another case of 4Kids filling up silence, after Ophir tells Riven that "nothing's going on between me and Musa" (plus a cut):
Unedited: (Musa walks up to Riven, and Riven sighs) Musa: Mm, nice to see you go to bat for me, Riven. (shot of Flora and Aisha walking) Riven: Really? Musa: Yeah! I'm really glad you decided to join us.
Edited: Musa: But it's very valiant of you to want to duel for me. Riven: Yeah? Musa: Yeah. I'm really glad you came, Riven. (shot of Flora and Aisha walking, rest of exchange here has been edited out)

Whereas last episode only showed the very end of Flora's fairy dust drawing animation, this one shows the very start of Stella's animation, showing her holding her bottle, when the Winx decide to shrink.

Interestingly, the owl in the labyrinth describes in all three of the English dubs that the Water Stars are indeed the opposite of the Dragon Fire. (Rather than Dragon Flame as Nick and Rai use)

An interesting change when the girls are talking to the nymph Arcadia in the Crystal Labyrinth. So anyways, she explains that if they can't find their way out of the labyrinth, they will have to stay in it...

Unedited:
Tecna: You mean like, forever?
Cut to Musa: Hey, where are Layla and Flora?
Stella: More importantly, where are we?
This then follows into the bit with the Specialists and Bloom playing games.

Edited:
Tecna: You mean, forever? (Tecna puts her arms down unlike in the original, by running the footage backwards)
(Alteration of earlier shot to show the nymph, as well as Flora and Layla, disappearing and the whole scenery changing from yellow to blue, to match the actual maze)
Cut to Musa: Hey, where are Layla and Flora?
Stella: More importantly, where are we?
This is then followed by the girls walking into the maze. (This part doesn't come until after the Specialists playing scene in the original)

Pictures, and note that part of Stella's arm has accidentally been erased in the modified shot mentioned above.

An animation error has been smoothed over in the 4Kids dub, after Timmy throws his ball off the rocks, where Timmy jumpcuts from one pose to a rather different one in the original.

The girls walk into the maze, as the girls have their own strategy for finding their way. Stella looks for the best-looking path, while Tecna is going to think logically. Of course they would Musa's idea differs between original and 4Kids.
Unedited: Naturally, her idea ties into music: "I'd rather play it by ear. Listen to this, now that speaks to me."
Edited: Musa's idea does not tie in to music: "It's better to follow your feelings."

During Stella's scene, 4K adds a closeup shot of Arcadia at two different points: Immediately after Stella's comments after looking in the mirror (4K!Arcadia tells her to look in the other mirror), and then after Stella asks if her faceless look is how she'll look from now on (4K!Arcadia's response is longer).

The Winx exit the maze:
Unedited: After the door opens behind Flora, we see the Winx running out of the maze and hearing the ruckus going on, before cutting back to the battle.
Edited: 4K cuts from the door opening straight back to the battle.

The Winx confront Icy:
Unedited: (Icy looks teed off) Musa: "Let's do this quick, with a convergence spell" Stella: "Good idea!" (Cut to Sky being punched by Darcy, then cut back to show the Winx's convergence spell)
Edited: (4K skips Icy looking teed off) Musa: "And how because of that, our convergence spells are so powerful." (4K skips Stella's line, and Sky getting punched, straight to the Winx's convergence spell)

4Kids skips a good chunk of the epilogue:
Unedited: After the Trix head off, we see the specialists walking across the meadow, before showing the Winx telling Bloom about their time in the labyrinth:

Spoiler!

Flora: Girls, I just want to tell you that I'm so proud of how you dealt with that whole labyrinth situation.
Bloom: Yeah, sounds like it was quite an ordeal you had to go through.
Stella: We didn't do anything you wouldn't have.

Edited: After the Trix head off, 4K skips the above exchange to the next scene described below.

Bloom holds up the box for the Water Stars:
Unedited: "This box contains the three Water Stars that Musa, Tecna and Stella risked everything to get."
Edited: The 4K dialog has a mistake... "In here are three ancient Water Stars that Musa, Layla and Stella risked everything to get."

This post has been edited by SpiderBraids: Oct 6 2014, 4:12 PM

[Sen]

Bloom holds up the box for the Water Stars:
Unedited: "This box contains the three Water Stars that Musa, Tecna and Stella risked everything to get."
Edited: The 4K dialog has a mistake... "In here are three ancient Water Stars that Musa, Layla and Stella risked everything to get."

Poor Tecna, she gets ignored every time. =(

[mightymarty2]

A lot of minor changes that make no difference but for getting rid of a few punches making contact that I don't really see the point of its not that violent and there is no blood. The talk on Music for Musa makes sence given what her choice is. I do think they should have left the text in.

Yep, poor Tecna forgotten and surprised it made it past the checks

[SpiderBraids]

Due to the known issues with 4K 3x23, here's a special surprise... More differences from the Halloween episode

The opening scene:
Unedited: The girls talk about their midterm reports while passing around information on the Halloween party a la "telephone" game, causing the message to become rather badly mangled by the time it reaches Tecna
Edited: The girls talk about how they're going to do a study report on Halloween. There is no "telephone" game.

The Winx girls head off:
Unedited: Bloom: "Even though in Gardenia only little kids can see you, try to stay out of trouble..." Bloom teleports off in the middle of that sentence, which raises a couple of questions. Pixies: "Promise!"
Edited: Bloom just ends her sentence before teleporting off, and the pixies follow her dust trail.

At the party:
Unedited: The drink that Mitzi offers Bloom is called a Screaming Mary.
Edited: The drink that Mitzi offers Bloom is cherry soda.

Unedited: Musa and Jolly seem to react to the faceless girls in the previous scene.
Jolly: "Did you see some strange girls back there?"
Musa: "Relax Jolly, they're just Mitzi's boring friends with costumes on. They think they're so cool..."
(Mitzi talks to Freddy Kruger about Musa talking to herself)
Jolly: "We'll soon be facing our doom, I can feel it "
Musa: "Hungry is what I feel." (Cake scene follows)
Edited: Musa says her usual slang, as Jolly engages in a little foreshadowing:
Jolly: "I don't like this place! You've all had your fun, please get out of here now!"
Musa: "Chillax Jolly, we'll leave soon enough, but we're getting good info here, you know, for the report."
(Mitzi talks to Freddy Kruger about Musa talking to herself... 4Kids has erased the splodges from his face)
Jolly: "I don't trust this girl Mitzi. She wears too much perfume."
Musa: "I can smell it from here." (Cake scene is skipped)

There appears to have been an effort to reduce Freddy's screen time in the episode, as not only does the cut cake scene feature him, but also in the final dancing scene, the bit with Musa dancing with Freddy is removed. Also:
Unedited: Musa's dance with Freddy is followed by a scene of the pixies playing with pumpkins, then shots of Layla and Stella dancing with guests. After the Mitzi/Vader exchange, we see the CD player kid talking with a medieval knight dude, then a (rather creepy) shot of a scarecrow guest walking out of the villa.
Edited: The shot of Layla dancing is mirrored, Stella's dance with the hat girl is also removed, and after Mitzi/Vader, the shot of the pixies playing with the pumpkins ends the episode, omitting the CD player kid and the scarecrow (thankfully )

[mightymarty2]

It seems a lot of the changes are caused by this report studying halloween.

Its a shame they changes the name of the drink even if the writters just gave it a spooky name and not its real name.

I prefer the unedited version as its more timeless and fits in better with the whole episode as Jolly has been warning the winx and they have been ignoring her all episode.

Its a shame that so much has been cut from the end

[SpiderBraids]

Well, drinking isn't really tolerated on US kids' TV, so I imagine that 4K might not want to give even the slightest impression that the Winx are engaged in underage drinking. The previous two season finales also had drink-related edits:

S1 finale:
Unedited: Saladin is shown drinking at the finale party.
Edited: Over the establishing shots of the party, we hear Saladin say, "It's no secret that I love milkshakes, but I really shouldn't" FG: "Oh c'mon, forget about your prim and proper for one night. It's a night to party!"

S2 finale:
I already mentioned the changed liquid in FG and Griffin's glasses, and here's another:
Unedited: Chatta drags over a cup of cappuccino for Piff to drink.
Edited: It's a cocoa, and when Piff says "Cocoa!" Chatta adds that it's her first word. Not really true, but she was still in Darkar's cell when Piff said "Bye-bye Layla!" (In both cases, Piff was making her usual noises in the original)

Due to the well documented issues with 3x23, we skip straight ahead to 3x24. We open with a nightmare Bloom is having about the events of the previous episode. To their credit, 4Kids presents it mostly intact, but does change Stella's line in the middle of the sequence:

Unedited: "That's a serious problem. Maybe you should go and see Ms. Faragonda and ask her for advice. After all, she is a great source of information and is always more than ready to help."
Edited: (Baltor: "Anyway, that's how it all ended.") "Hello Bloom, did you hear? The school's changing its name from Alfea. We're gonna be called Baltor High from now on, isn't that so awesome?"

Unedited: Near the end of the nightmare, we're shown pictures of the ancestral witches, Mike and Vanessa, a blurry image of Oritel and Marian, the ancestral witches, ending with a picture of Valtor.
Edited: We're just shown Baltor.

The girls and FG have a seance. 4K tries to make sense of the footage...
Unedited: The other girls disappear, leaving Bloom and FG sitting in chairs. FG has some good news and bad news: The ancestral witches did not respond, but their magic essence is still very active in the crypt of CT. Flashcut to Stella telling Bloom "That is fantastic news Bloom!" Bloom: "It's encouraging, but it's not going to be easy. Valtor obliterated Cloud Tower, supposedly, yet it still appeared in the vision." Flashcut back to FG: "Which means that Cloud Tower wasn't actually destroyed." Flashcut to Bloom and Stella having a look of realization on their faces, before flashcutting back to FG: "Bloom, you must make your way to Cloud Tower, and enter the crypt despite the fact that the castle is no longer there." Flashcut back to Stella and Bloom having a look of determination, then flashcut to the next scene.
Edited: During the seance, FG tells the other girls: "Leave us now girls, Bloom and I will finish the journey alone." Flashcut to FG and Bloom in chairs. FG says of Bloom cringing: "You felt that, a jolt of dark energy. The essence of the three ancestral witches still exists, and it's located in Cloud Tower's crypt." Flashcut to Stella telling Bloom "Woohoo, that is fantastic news!" Bloom: "Well, it's good that their essence still exists in Cloud Tower, but the question is: does Cloud Tower still even exist?" It then immediately cuts to the next scene.

The next scene is the girls using the Water Stars to reveal Cloud Tower's existence.

Unedited: Stella: "In my opinion, what she (FG) meant was that Cloud Tower still exists somewhere, except that no one knows exactly where, so I propose we focus on finding out where the castle went when it disappeared." Bloom: "Alright then, let's start from the beginning. Valtor cast a spell and the castle disappeared. If we're to find out what happened to it, we've got to break that spell. To do that, we need to know what kind of spell Valtor used."
Edited: 4K!Stella thinks in terms of fashion: "It would help if we knew what kind of spell was cast. I mean it's like this time in sixth grade, when this mean girl cast this spell on my really cute sweater and turned it plaid. Once I knew what kind of spell I was able to turn it back." (4Kids cuts out the start of Bloom's line) "Except that this is an entire school, and Baltor's not a 6th grader."

In the previous episode, it was pointed out that the Water Stars could sap away Bloom's power, so the girls should be concerned about using them on Cloud Tower. However, the two dubs handle this differently:

Unedited: They do not address the issue with the Water Stars affecting Bloom.
Edited: They do address the issue with the Water Stars, as Bloom says "They only affect me when they're activated, so I'll put up a shield to protect myself." (No visual changes to effect this have been made, though.)

The other Winx girls shrink to a mini size.
Unedited: Due to a miscolor, Layla looks like she's exposing herself (!)
Edited: A visual edit has been made to make Layla's outfit look a bit more modest.

Tecna, Flora and Musa cast a spell on the Trix:
Unedited: We're not given a specific spell name as they just say "Convergence Enchantix Power" as they freeze up the Trix. Musa: "Come on Icy, loosen up. You look a little stiff today " Icy: "You think I'm stiff huh? Just you wait until I undo your puny little spell."
Edited: Musa calls it out as a "Time Freeze", replete with an appropriate "slowing down" sound effect. Musa: "Consider yourselves to have just received a time out " Icy's line is snipped, because it wouldn't make sense for her to speak...

Bloom encounters the ancestral witches to ask about her parents.
Unedited: The discussion more or less just peters out.
AW: "They're outside of this realm, in a dimension far, far, away." B: "Nothing is too far for me. I want to meet them, I want to get to know them." AW: "Slow down fairy, do you really think it's that simple?" B: "Just tell me where my parents are, I've got to know, this is too important." (Black void fades out back to the CT cellar) "Hey wait, don't go away, you can't leave me like this, you can't... *sigh*"
Edited: The witches are more blunt about being parsimonious about the information...
AW: "In a place far far away, not in this realm, or even this dimension." B: "Nothing is too far away for me. Tell me where they are and I'll go there!" AW: "It is not a place you can go, and that is all we will say!!"

The 4K voice for the witch comes across as more menacing than her unedited dub counterpart. I'll let you think whether that makes it better...

4K appears to have edited out the production info frame that appears after Bloom calls out "Enchantix Final Attack" in the original and Nick dubs, or says "Let's dust these witches" in the 4K dub. It appears that Nick also edited out the duff frame as well. And of course, 4K edits out the fairy dust.

At the start of the final Alfea scene, the transition to inside the library is different:
Unedited: A simple fade
Edited: A split-wipe from centre

[mightymarty2]

Well the first change seems a bit pointless as Saladin is no where near the drinking age

The change of drink for Piff makes sence given I think its not recommended to give coffee to someone so young

really does seem like its at different points of the episode given the two lines out of context

Really doesn't make much difference though it is nice to see the others who are involved

It doesn't make much difference but the more context the better

It does seem more worth while discussing the water stars affect on Bloom

Fixing the problems caused by a mistake is a good idea

I do prefer the original as it does seem to work better

I do agree with you regarding the voice but the original does have a better lines.

[SpiderBraids]

On to 3x25 now... After Valtor releases his spells on Red Fountain, we see Saladin and Griffin having a conference call with Faragonda.
Unedited: Both teachers are animated with full opacity, like they are physically present in FG's room.
Edited: 4Kids gives the characters some transparency, and adds a bit of a scanning effect on Saladin. It also appears that they have replaced the background for Saladin to facilitate this change.
(Picture)

There are quite a few minor snips here and there during the next couple minutes. For example, after Sky sets up a bomb inside one of the tornadoes, 4K cuts out Timmy saying "Roger that" before telling Helia to activate the bombs.

Flora reaches into the dry lake bed.
Unedited: Flora's hand goes through the dry lake bed with a little water shimmer effect.
Edited: 4Kids adds a red glow to the scene when Flora's hand penetrates the bed.
(Picture)

4Kids edits out the fairy dust (as usual), but not the obvious animation mistake (Bloom holding a Water Star instead of her fairy dust bottle as she's supposed to be).

More minor snips, as the Winx see the water returning to the lake bed:
Unedited: The original version pans over from Musa et al. to Tecna and Layla.
Edited: It just cuts from Musa et al. to Tecna and Layla.

Unedited: After the Trix leave through some hole in the roof, we pan over to the Winx before showing water bursting from holes in the walls.
Edited: The Trix leave, and we cut to the water bursting from the walls.

After the Trix are all washed up (until season 5, anyway ), we get a quick whistlestop tour of Andros, Solaria and Oppositus (3x14) returning to normal (think Return of the Jedi, special edition epilogue )

Unedited: We're shown the realms without anything extra.
Edited: We're given textual captions telling where each place is. Probably most useful for Oppositus...
(Picture)

Also...
Unedited: We spend quite a bit of time on Andros, including scenes of Ligea watching some of the mermaids twirling in celebration, and Tressa (3x05) hugging her fellow mermaid friends.
Edited: Most of the sequence is removed, leaving just shots of the portal guards returning to normal and a wide shot of the mermaids twirling.

This post has been edited by SpiderBraids: Dec 18 2014, 1:11 AM

[mightymarty2]

These edits don't make much difference except for minor cosmetic differences. Although the text is helpful.

[SpiderBraids]

We come to the end of our long comparison journey with the season 3 finale.

Normally, I do not note spell name changes, as it's almost a given. However, it is notable when Stella casts a spell to block Brandon from a gushing stream:
Unedited: It's called an Enchantix Moon Shield, even though it's orange
Edited: It's called an Enchantix Sun Shield.

Musa decides to use her fairy dust to heal Riven:
Unedited: After the transformation, we're shown Musa taking out her fairy dust bottle (followed by the usual animation), and after Riven slumps to the ground, we see Musa rush to his side.
Edited: We go straight from the end of the transformation to Musa sprinkling her dust, and after Riven slumps down, we skip straight to Bloom's scene.

Flora, Layla, Helia and Nabu come across the other Specialists in a cage.
Unedited: Layla (and Flora) decide to transform and we see their transformations, before heading back to Tecna.
Edited: We completely skip the transformation, plus the bumper animation leading back to Tecna (as well as those for the other girls). These bumper animations play several times, so they add up. (And it also has the effect of making the sequence much more frenetic )

Valtor talks to the Ancestral Witches in a non-descript blue-ish void.
Unedited: The scene is presented normally
Edited: 4Kids appears to have added a dark vignette around the scene (it's most clear when showing extreme closeups of Baltor's face)

Later, when Bloom is talking with Valtor, the same vignette effect is added to their scenes as well. (Picture) 4Kids also reuses a short bit from earlier in the sequence, and as usual, Bloom's fairy dust animation is edited out.

Final party, and 4Kids removes one last bit of silence...
Unedited: Layla and Nabu walking together at the party.
Edited: Over the shot of them holding hands, Nabu says: "You're the best thing that ever happened to me, Layla." (The abrupt cut at the kiss was always there, though)

And on that note, I leave you with a link to some of the comparison videos I made back in the day

This post has been edited by SpiderBraids: Dec 25 2014, 12:53 PM

[mightymarty2]

Well the name makes more sence in the edited version but its a shame the moon seems to have been droped from Stella's powers

The unedited is better here as it shows more emotion and builds up a little more tension

The edited version clearly seems to have been done for timing reasons but as it was the last couple of episodes it would have been nice to see enchantix transformation fully one last time

This does not really make much difference

Its a shame the silence was removed

[Abdu 6b]

Overall that was pretty cool! I liked the unedited version for most comparisons. the edited cut too much out. Thanks for noting all this. Maybe you could do Season 4 original versus Nickelodeon?

[P-girl]

Are there any notable differences?
Last time I checked, while it wasn't word for word, there wasn't any M'usa Princess (?) of her Planet' situations. (No, I will never get over that one.)