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> What is Art? And how important is that title?, Let's see if we can get an argument like this going.
P-girl
post Apr 28 2010, 9:38 PM
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Yeah..... I'm feeling philosophical here. I became so in reaction to a blog post that said 'Video Games can't be art.' and the kneejerk reactions it got. What I found odd was that while, yes, the poster in question (Roger Ebert) was obviously playing out of his league and maybe a tad prejudiced, he did make some valid points. But it's not that notion I want to discuss. Why all the knee-jerk reactions? Why feel so defensive when someone says your favorite past-time isn't art? Is Art really that great a word?

I think the word 'Art' is an overrated word. Many compare it to emotional investment and response, but that isn't always true. For example: I love Winx. Adore it. It gets an emotional response out of me. Does that mean it's art? No. Is that a bad thing? Not at all.

While 'Art' itself isn't a bad word, for me, but it has negative connotations for me. Like those artsy movies that just try to hard. They try so hard to be art that they forget to be what they're supposed to be: movies. I myself am a storywriter. Do I consider my stories art? No. Not at all. They're stories. They're what they're supposed to be, nothing more, nothing less. I don't try to fill them with meaningfull messages or anything like that (Things many people consider 'Art'). I just want to take the things that pop up in my head and share them with other people.

If these ramblings are coming off as incoherent and inane, I'm sorry. And please, no 'Don't posts like these belong in your blog?'. This is something I want to discuss. I want to hear opinions. Counter-arguments.
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Another Morning
post Apr 28 2010, 9:58 PM
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I'd provide such a counter-argument, but I pretty much agree with you XD Who cares of somebody thinks what you enjoy is "art" or not? I'm of the opinion that there is no standard definition of "art" anyway, so if one guy, or a million guys, say that video games aren't art, then hooray for them. They're art to everyone who thinks they are.


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wkw427
post Apr 28 2010, 11:07 PM
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EVERYTHING is art, one way or another...

Though you really shouldn't take what that blog said with three grains of sand. I mean, you have no right to talk about something if you don't understand what it is.
That is why I don't do politics.


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MorriganAensland
post Apr 29 2010, 3:32 AM
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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/v...deogames-as-Art

Not sure if it's coincidence or not that P-Girl posted this thread the same day Yahtzee released an article on such.


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mightymarty2
post Apr 29 2010, 7:03 AM
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On top gear they said that art is something that has no purpose other than its self or something along thoughs lines it was a while ago while they were testing the Alfa 8C compasionale (spelling)

Art is a strange thing that people seem to spend a lot of time devaluing as some people who claim things are art that look like they have been done in 10 seconds

I think art personally is something designed to look good and/or promote discussion and does not have much if any use beyond that


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Ranma
post Apr 29 2010, 7:40 AM
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((I posted this earlier actually. I'm not saying this as a gamer, but as a game designer.))

Is music art? If you say yes, then you are saying that games are already crossing art's threshold. Many games have music that is beautifully composed and orchestrated.
Is drawing or painting art? If you say yes, then you are saying that games are already crossing art's threshold. So much character art, and landscape art goes into making a game. There are many beautiful landscapes that can be found in video games.
Is writing art? If you say yes, then you are saying that games are already crossing art's threshold.
Many games have stories that have brought players to tears. Many games have truly touching and well written stories.

If all of these things are art, and these are the things that video games are made of, why aren't video games art?


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Jahnavi
post Apr 29 2010, 7:48 AM
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QUOTE
I think art personally is something designed to look good and/or promote discussion and does not have much if any use beyond that

I don't agree, Marty. I think that's a more commercial definition of art.

One of the definitions for it that I found in the dictionary was "the products of human creativity". And I think that's more along the lines of my definition. Because I think art is something you create (or something someone else may have created that you appreciate), which shows who you are and what you're like as a person. Your likes, dislikes, etc, for one thing... (I've seen some simple but straightforward examples of this in real-life.) So I favour the "expression of the soul" kind of explanation for art, and I know that's a vague description, but that's just my point: art isn't something tangible that you can easily classify. I mean, it can be divided into things like drawing/painting, music, dance, writing (I was still writing my post up while Ranma posted his, so I just noticed I mentioned the same things xD)...and that's just one level on which you can segregate it. So yeah, my rough definition of art would probably be the expression of your personality.

This post has been edited by Jahnavi: Apr 29 2010, 7:50 AM


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P-girl
post Apr 29 2010, 8:10 AM
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QUOTE (Ranma @ Apr 29 2010, 07:40 AM) *
((I posted this earlier actually. I'm not saying this as a gamer, but as a game designer.))

Is music art? If you say yes, then you are saying that games are already crossing art's threshold. Many games have music that is beautifully composed and orchestrated.
Is drawing or painting art? If you say yes, then you are saying that games are already crossing art's threshold. So much character art, and landscape art goes into making a game. There are many beautiful landscapes that can be found in video games.
Is writing art? If you say yes, then you are saying that games are already crossing art's threshold.
Many games have stories that have brought players to tears. Many games have truly touching and well written stories.

If all of these things are art, and these are the things that video games are made of, why aren't video games art?


One of the points made in the comments to the article (Maybe I should post it.... as soon as I remember where I got it), was that, yes, the music, drawings and writing in games are art. But does that make the game itself art? Or just it's components? I'm not really sure how to answer that question.
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mightymarty2
post Apr 29 2010, 8:13 AM
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I think a game is not art however if you were to put things like the concept art separate it is art.....As its pictures and things like that also why would they call it art if its not


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Jahnavi
post Apr 29 2010, 8:30 AM
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So things like writing and music don't count as art to you? {...I'm sorry if that comes across as sounding defensive when you read it; that's not my intention at all. I'm just genuinely asking the question. =)}

This post has been edited by Jahnavi: Apr 29 2010, 8:30 AM


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mightymarty2
post Apr 29 2010, 8:58 AM
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Not really to me art is pictures, suculptures and stuff like that. Music and writting is not really art. They are on there own categories with music being more grouped with performance based things like acting


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Ranma
post Apr 29 2010, 10:23 AM
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Ah, but if you go to school for music isn't a Bachelors of Arts?
I have a degree in game design, and it is also a Bachelors of Arts.

As for the components thing.
If every component that goes into a game is art, I believe that when they are combined it is also art. Games are art. If the people that design them believe it to be art, then it has to be art. If artists are hired to create a game, then it is art.

To create a single character model an artist has to draw 3 different views of that character (they can sometimes get away with 2). A front view, a side view, and a back view. After wards that is given to a 3d ARTIST to turn into a 3d model using computer software like Maya or 3ds max. Then those models are boring and without color. So they are given to a texture ARTIST to be given color. The environments are the same. Their concepts are drawn and then 3d artists make them in 3d. Music is made and (usually) a story is written. Video games are pieces of art that the player is able to interact with.

That's what separates video games from movies or books. The player isn't just watching, and the player isn't just reading and imagining what is going on... The player is interacting with environments, and the other characters in the game, and so on.

But just because video games are...well... games. That shouldn't cheapen the hard work that went into creating them. I believe that by saying that games aren't art, and that they are just games. It just cheapens the hard work that was put into them.

Did you know that some people still think that the game design career is a joke. My sister has a friend that wants to go to college for game design like I did, but her parents are refusing to let her go. If she goes, they are completely cutting her off. Maybe if more people thought of it as art and not child's play the entire industry will be seen in a better light.


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P-girl
post Apr 29 2010, 10:40 AM
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Aaaand, I think this is where the whole 'Art is an important title' debacle comes in. That only if a creative medium is being called an Art, that it gets recognition and importance.

I'm not going to say anything else because, well, I don't feel like I'm the one to talk..... like I said, I never considered anything creative I made, art. True, there's effort, but it doesn't match up to some things I've seen people do, wether it's in games, movies, books, paintings, music or anything else.
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Jahnavi
post Apr 29 2010, 3:39 PM
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QUOTE (Ranma @ Apr 29 2010, 03:23 PM) *
Ah, but if you go to school for music isn't a Bachelors of Arts?
I have a degree in game design, and it is also a Bachelors of Arts.

...Also, on a technical note, if you don't choose a career in the sciences or commerce, I think almost everything else is classified as the humanities, aka the arts.

Seriously, I'd like to get into a "What isn't art?" debate, and see what we come up with. Because almost all fields seem to contain contributions from some type of art or the other.

This post has been edited by Jahnavi: Apr 29 2010, 3:44 PM


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mightymarty2
post Apr 29 2010, 5:10 PM
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Firstly If I sound like i feel computer games are not a lot of effort, that is wrong and I never meant to say/insinate that. I respect all game designers.

Also my degree that I am currently studying is BA (Hons) Accounting and Finance and that is not an art degree.



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Ranma
post Apr 30 2010, 12:23 AM
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To each their own, but I don't think people should disregard something as art due to personal preference.

This is Brad Wong's ending in DOA 3. I don't know why someone would dis regard this as art. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJbUvqDc-U8

Yes, this is from a video game.


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{§hani}
post Apr 30 2010, 3:45 AM
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well to be most honest anything can be art. If the true meaning of art is "to express an idea, feeling, emotion or belief" anything can be art. So whose to say video games arent art?
gee its such a wide argument sometimes it just becomes a war of who likes what and who doesnt. Its opinion really.


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Boo
post May 1 2010, 1:52 AM
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They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and in my opinion, the same is true with art. Some may see one thing as art while another thinks otherwise.
For example, I know an artist who simply cannot and will not say that a certain type of art is, in fact, art, whilst one of my very creative friends considers it the best form of art.

To put it simply, I believe it is purely a matter of opinion; there is no strict definition of what is and what isn't.

Though, then again, I think the boundaries of what can be considered art doesn't extend to everything. icon_wink.gif


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