Enchantix Versus Sailor Moon Transformation, o_O Options

[RenaEnchantix]

ya. Cutie Honey was the first transforming girl and is often credited as the mother of the magical girl, though she herself isn't (the shows sci-fi, not magical girl). yeah, the anime was/is sketchy, but the live action movie is much better and I definetly recomend it. Sailor Moon is pretty much the girl who made transforming famous though. Many more people around the world have heard of Sailor Moon, but not so much Cutie Honey (this is because Go Nagai, the creator, is smart and didn't really let it leave japan). Winx Club is definetly one of the many Sailor Moon clones, but it just got more fame than the other ones like Tokyo Mew Mew or Wedding Peach.

[SolarfireWinx]

Cutie Honey's the oldest according to Wikipedia, it also has A LOT of the same animators as Sailor Moon. The reason Sailor Moon's so popular is because it was the first anime sensation in America and around the world. Up until then, anime had never really left Japan until its animators decided to take a chance and send it to be dubbed. However before it became mainstream, it was still being bootlegged and subbed by college kids back in the 70's. ((FYI- this was my high school senior thesis, I'm not making this stuff up. I did a 3 year study on it.)) Transformations are fairly popular in anime and in cartoons, the style maybe similar but look at Dragonball Z, Yu-gi-oh, Digimon, Transformers, Tokyo Mew Mew, Elemetal Gerad, and Cardcaptor Sakura, ((I know there are many more, those are just off the top of my head)) They all use transformation sequences, I'm sure they were inspired by the Japanese style ((as is everyone at the moment )) and drew from that for the Enchantix transformations.

[RenaEnchantix]

Cutie Honey's the oldest according to Wikipedia, it also has A LOT of the same animators as Sailor Moon. The reason Sailor Moon's so popular is because it was the first anime sensation in America and around the world. Up until then, anime had never really left Japan until its animators decided to take a chance and send it to be dubbed. However before it became mainstream, it was still being bootlegged and subbed by college kids back in the 70's. ((FYI- this was my high school senior thesis, I'm not making this stuff up. I did a 3 year study on it.)) Transformations are fairly popular in anime and in cartoons, the style maybe similar but look at Dragonball Z, Yu-gi-oh, Digimon, Transformers, Tokyo Mew Mew, Elemetal Gerad, and Cardcaptor Sakura, ((I know there are many more, those are just off the top of my head)) They all use transformation sequences, I'm sure they were inspired by the Japanese style ((as is everyone at the moment )) and drew from that for the Enchantix transformations.

Yes, all of the shows you mentioned are definetly inspired by the japanese style...as they are all japanese...and just for your info, Cardcaptor Sakura did not use transformation sequences. neither did Yu-Gi-Oh. Yu-Gi-Oh did have a transformation, but no sequence for it. Cardcaptor Sakura never involved any transformation sequence at all. sorry if I seem snobbish, but i just know a lot about magical girl series

[MorriganAensland]

Uh... actually, Cutie Honey wasn't the very first magic girl anime... if we want to get into specifics, there's the subclass about the girl that just tries to live an ordinary life, using her abilities to cause/solve hijinx, and if we count that, then Mahou Tsukai Sally, or Sally the With, was the first.

And in regards to Cutie Honey, Go Nagai, who created it, is NOTORIOUS for toungue-and-cheek sexual humor. I mean, it's called the Honey Flash for a reason. The Mazinkaiser OVA also has a great deal of that kind of humor, especially in the third and fourth episode. Another of his stories, which was obviously aimed at adults, actually deals with a masked heroine that fights completely nude except for red boots, gloves, and a mask with bunny ears called "Kekko Kamen".

And Sailor Moon is more an amalgamation of Cutie Honey and Saint Seiya, incorporating the idea of an empowered female character from the former and the idea of a group from the latter. Even certain techniques resemble each other in appearance.

http://stayka.homelinux.net/seiya/texte/smoon/st-smoon.html

[PrettyFlora]

What id like to know is why must people compare Sailor moon to EVERYTHING ive seen some really irritating comments on youtube like mermaid melody vids "OH THIS COPYED SAILOR MOON" or on all of my fav progs. It really bugs me to death, yes mermaid melody or tokyo mew mew is in the same catagory as in Sailor Moon but how the heck do they have the same storylines.
Ok let me think lets start with mermaid melody ok, they are mermaids and they are trying to save the underwater kingdom from getting destroyed and protect the earth from getting taken over by some sea person. Right so im guessing sailor moon is a mermaid who transforms and sings to purify the evil peoples hearts -.-
What about Tokyo mew mew , They get infused with animal DNA and they then turn into mew mews they then have to collect the mew aqua and stop the villans. Ok im guessing not only is sailor moon a "mermaid" but shes also infused with animal DNA and transforms into a mew mew.......
Then you have to hear this ok, a few people commented on ojamajo doremi that they copyed sailor moon HAHAHAHHAA. That made me laugh ok lets do what I done before. They are 10-12 year old witches they meet someone who gives them magic drops and they have to become the best witches also save the world from evil.
So im guessing not only is sailor moon a mermaid or not just infused with animal DNA and is a mew mew but she is also a 10-12 year old witch/

Im sorry I know this sounds really harsh but ive had enough of all my fav animes being compared to sailor moon. I do understand that whatever floats your boat.

This post has been edited by PrettyFlora: Dec 5 2007, 10:34 PM

[MorriganAensland]

Doreimi and MewMew differ a lot from Sailor Moon. Doreimi has a lot more of the "hijinx" elements that Mahou Tsukai Sally did, and MewMew is meant to stress environmental concerns more than the 4Kids version did.

The big problem with people accusing certain magic girl shows as being Sailor Moon rip-offs is the curse of the transformation sequence. Obviously over the course of a show, it's reasonable for the characters to get upgrades. With shows like Mazinger Z or Gundam, that meant switching over to a different machine or improving on a pre-existing one, like when Mazinger got the Jet Scrander and could fly or when Gundam Mark-II was powered up with the G-Defensor. However, with "magic warrior" shows, the problem is that upgrades equate to better transformations and disregarding previous ones.

Saint Seiya circumvented this with the existence of the armor. When Mu patched up their armor and improved them, they protected Seiya and co.'s bodies better, looked more like actual armor, etc. Hence, at the end of the series with the Kamui, they were complete suits, leaving very little of their body vulnerable. Since the episodes are more arc-driven and not "monster of the week", the characters also rarely had the armor-wearing sequences shown. However with Sailor Moon and shows like that, the transformation sequences happen frequently.

My problem with Winx is that they've dug themselves into a hole and it's obvious to me. They've made the story too Dragon Fire-centric and are fresh out of ideas to work with it. One Piece's gone on for ten years and stayed original. Saint Seiya had a successful five year run and has three seperate spin-offs going on right now. Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas is the most popular because it elaborates on background elements of the series, like the Jamir race that Mu, Shion, and Kiki. Episode G add background to Sanctuary during the time between the beginning of Saint Seiya and the thirteen years later where the story mainly focuses on. Lastly, Saint Seiya: Next Dimension is lumbering along, but mainly because Kurumada's busy with Ring ni Kakero 2 right now.

[P-girl]

I don't think they 'dug a hole' by making the series Dragonfire centric. Sure, it gets annoying, but there's still an untapped well of posibilities besides it. Or is that me being to optimistic?

This post has been edited by P-girl: Dec 6 2007, 7:23 PM

[MorriganAensland]

Probably just me not being optemistic enough. The anime I seriously follow all are all pretty famous, like Saint Seiya, Hokuto no Ken, One Piece, etc.

And Go Nagai's works, well, the most "mainstream" of them, seem to have a few recurring themes in them. Grendizer and the whole Mazinger saga on a whole have undertones of "fate" and the dichotemy with anything, with Grendizer initially designed to spearhead invasions and turning around and being Earth's only defense agaisnt the Vegans, and Mazinger Z is stated on numerous occasions to have "the power of the God or the Devil" and must be kept out of the wrong hands, a fear realized when Baron Asura refits it into the Asura Mazinger and nearly kills the heroes in the Mazinkaiser OVA if it weren't for the titalar robot coming to the rescue. Kouji actually makes a rather inspiring declaration at the end of the series, declaring he won't let his grandfather's greatest work (Mazinkaiser) be made into a devil.

Devilman and Devilman Lady moreso stress criticizing those hesitant of change and those that support war, and Nagai went so far as to write a whole essay a few years ago about it. Read it here. Devilman's follow-up, Violence Jack could be viewed as a "don't let this happen" series, showing the decedance, immoral behavior, and atrocities that come about after the events of Devilman (or war in general).

And the Getter series, especially Neo Getter Robo vs. Shin Getter Robo, stress humanity's need to evolve technology-wise and learning to have faith in nuclear power. One of the big plot points in Neo vs. Shin is that Getter Energy, which is said to have no limits, is outlawed after the destruction of New York City due to one of Getter's pilots Musashi destroying the reactor of the machine to stave off an enemy invasion. To defend the planet, the UN sponsors Japan's creation of Neo Getter Robo, which runs on the safe "Plasma Power", which is modestly powerful but tragically limited. Neo Getter Robo's apparant faults and lack of strength against powerful opponents is made evident quickly (but then again, the OVA only had four episodes), and against their better judgement, the team revives the allegedly unstoppable Shin Getter Robo which is instrumental in saving humanity.

[BloomKianna]

I don't think they look familiar at all. Well Stella, Musa, and Layla wear mini tops. An the other girls dresses are flowing unlike sailormoon's dresses show the skinnyness. But The skirts of Stella, Musa, and Layla look familiar. But thats the only thing I noticed. And I noticed differences instead like Serena has a large tiara and enchantix only has tiny hair-clips. And if Cutie Honey Flash was the first transformation anime then its probably before I was born!

I don't think they look familiar at all. Well Stella, Musa, and Layla wear mini tops. An the other girls dresses are flowing unlike sailormoon's dresses show the skinnyness. But The skirts of Stella, Musa, and Layla look familiar. But thats the only thing I noticed. And I noticed differences instead like Serena has a large tiara and enchantix only has tiny hair-clips. And if Cutie Honey Flash was the first transformation anime then its probably before I was born!

[MorriganAensland]

Actually, Cutie Honey Flash was the re-imagined version of the series that came out in the late '90s and had more of a shoujo theme to it, avoiding some of the more obvious sexual references of the original series and the more recent "New Cutie Honey" OVA.

[RenaEnchantix]

Uh... actually, Cutie Honey wasn't the very first magic girl anime... if we want to get into specifics, there's the subclass about the girl that just tries to live an ordinary life, using her abilities to cause/solve hijinx, and if we count that, then Mahou Tsukai Sally, or Sally the With, was the first.

http://stayka.homelinux.net/seiya/texte/smoon/st-smoon.html

I never said Cutie Honey was the first magical girl anime. Actually, if we want to get into specifics, Cutie Honey is NOT a magical girl series. it's Science Fiction. Cutie Honey Flash is apparently magical girl, but that was a very different take on Cutie Honey. all the other series stick to the original idea that Cutie Honey is an android/cyborg run by a system that lets her transform. and she wasn't really solving hijinx, she was fighting an evil organization.

[MorriganAensland]

True, but the replacement of magic with technology in Cutie Honey doesn't mean it's not a magic girl show. The old '73 show avoided most of Nagai's traditional manga elements, removing most of the violence and "gross" humor, along with making the only reference to lesbianism being one of Honey's teacher's infatuations with her. Plus, Honey was also the class clown.

And even in the modern versions, it involves her saving people through the "power of love" and all. And in the RE: Cutie Honey OVA series, they changed the title of her power to the "Imaginary Induction" system, otherwise shorteed to I-System, a pun on the Japanese word for love, "ai". And I said that only a subclass of the magic-girl genre involved playful hijix. Others, like Cutie Honey which started that subclass, were more action-oriented.

In my mind, Cutie Honey and Majokko Tickle are Nagai's main Magic Girl series. Although Wild Cardz did feature female protagonists, it was too shonen. Devilman Lady, especially the manga version, was very violent and too disturbing on some aspects to be a Magic Girl series, and Kekko Kamen was more a parody of Gekko Kamen than anything else with Kekko wearing the most revealing superheroine outfit ever... which I believe I described early in this topic.

[RenaEnchantix]

True, but the replacement of magic with technology in Cutie Honey doesn't mean it's not a magic girl show. The old '73 show avoided most of Nagai's traditional manga elements, removing most of the violence and "gross" humor, along with making the only reference to lesbianism being one of Honey's teacher's infatuations with her. Plus, Honey was also the class clown.

And even in the modern versions, it involves her saving people through the "power of love" and all. And in the RE: Cutie Honey OVA series, they changed the title of her power to the "Imaginary Induction" system, otherwise shorteed to I-System, a pun on the Japanese word for love, "ai". And I said that only a subclass of the magic-girl genre involved playful hijix. Others, like Cutie Honey which started that subclass, were more action-oriented.

In my mind, Cutie Honey and Majokko Tickle are Nagai's main Magic Girl series. Although Wild Cardz did feature female protagonists, it was too shonen. Devilman Lady, especially the manga version, was very violent and too disturbing on some aspects to be a Magic Girl series, and Kekko Kamen was more a parody of Gekko Kamen than anything else with Kekko wearing the most revealing superheroine outfit ever... which I believe I described early in this topic.

by my definition of magical girl show, the fact there's no magic in Cutie Honey at all kind of rules it out of that genre. if we were going by what your definition appears to be, Totally Spies and Hannah Montana are also magical girls. just because she says she uses the power of love doesn't mean she's magic, it means she's standing up for love. I know about the I-system change, I have the live action movie (which is actually where the I System first appeared, the OAV was based off of the movie) and in the preview it says "Nothing beats Love System" so I did actually get the little joke they had there. as for it being a shoujo series, I think it was originaly meant to have a male audience (it definetly sounds like it would appeal more to a male demographic) but it found a female one. the same thing happened with Angelic Layer and Chobits. those manga were ment for men, but women read them and the change in audience was then showed in the tamer anime series.

[MorriganAensland]

The audience doesn't determine what it is. Saint Seiya is up to its neck in fangirls because of the numerous bishonen characters, and in some cases their "bad boy nature" (Phoenix Ikki... notorious in fights for psychologically torturing his opponents, for example). However, just because it appeals to women, in some cases more than men, doesn't mean it's not a "magic boy" show.

"Shonen" and "Shoujou" aren't genres, they are designations for the age-groups the author wrote them for. Shows like "Sailor Nothing" and "Angel Blade" are Magic Girl shows, in spite of their extremely mature themes that I won't get into here. The obviously aren't shoujo, but they still follow the basic concept for a magic girl show.

Besides, Tokyo Mew Mew doesn't follow the "magic" concept exactly; it seems more of striking the middle-ground between magic and technology.

[RenaEnchantix]

The audience doesn't determine what it is. Saint Seiya is up to its neck in fangirls because of the numerous bishonen characters, and in some cases their "bad boy nature" (Phoenix Ikki... notorious in fights for psychologically torturing his opponents, for example). However, just because it appeals to women, in some cases more than men, doesn't mean it's not a "magic boy" show.

"Shonen" and "Shoujou" aren't genres, they are designations for the age-groups the author wrote them for. Shows like "Sailor Nothing" and "Angel Blade" are Magic Girl shows, in spite of their extremely mature themes that I won't get into here. The obviously aren't shoujo, but they still follow the basic concept for a magic girl show.

Besides, Tokyo Mew Mew doesn't follow the "magic" concept exactly; it seems more of striking the middle-ground between magic and technology.

Ya. I don't consider Tokyo Mew Mew a magical girl show. I consider it Science fiction, since there technically is nothing magical about the show. it seems magical, but it's all technological and stuff.

[MorriganAensland]

Well, at least you're consistent in what you consider a "magic girl" show or not. That's the important thing.

[RenaEnchantix]

Well, at least you're consistent in what you consider a "magic girl" show or not. That's the important thing.

we agree on something!

Ya, if there's no magic in it, I don't consider the show magical

[WinxFairyAlianne]

I like the enchantix better! I think they are prettier!

[Music123]

To be honest I like winx transformations better than Salor Moon

[Manda4winx]

I like the Enchantix better. They're more cooler and more detailed. =)