Vs. Arguments, excuse my ranting and raving. Options

[Asher Omega]

I apologize in advance if I offend anyone but I have to get this off my chest.

I absolutely hate VS arguments. the entire thing of "Who would win? Superman or Goku?" just doesn't appeal to me. but there are a few match ups that really irk me. right now I was youtubing some videos of SRW Z. and low and behold there in the comments was an argument about who was the better Gundam and Pilot between Gundam Seed and Gundam 00. while I do note that I have only seen one episode of Gundam Seed (the very first), after hearing about what happened in the second season it (to me at least) lost its right to be taken seriously as a Gundam series. the Gundams were way over powered, nothing could harm them, the pilot could down a planet and still be considered a hero. and people were saying that Gundam 00 (the series, not the Mech) was too emotionless. (WHAT?!?) if they (the people who actually watched Seed and thought it was good) paid close attention, there's a larger picture. Gundam 00 is more politically oriented than the rest of the Gundam series. which means there's a lot more political intrigue in the plot.

okay, I know I don't have anything on Seed, but Double 0 has some really great and interesting points. the Char (I'll explain in more detail later) is actually a likable guy and doesn't get his mask until second season (I'm not saying how thought). and then there were others that could actually take on the gundams. meaning that they weren't invincible machines. and you know what this sounds like to me? the original Gundam! in the original series, Gundam (or the RX-78) only had one thing going for it, the ability to learn after each battle. the battle with Rumba Ral (if it wasn't for his Heart condition, last I recall) Could have actually beaten Amuro and destroyed or taken Gundam. I like a series that makes it to be that there's weaknesses for everything.

and this was what bugged me. some idiot called Ali Al Sarches a GRUNT! you don't call named characters Grunts! (well there are named grunts but this is different) plus he's a Plot relevant character, so you can't dismiss him. the person used the names with out actually noting their significances. Graham Acker is the Char (okay now I have to explain, in the original Gundam anime, there's a character called Char Aznable, and since him there has to be a character like him) so he's allowed to beat the living crap out of the Gundams! that person was spouting crap about a series he doesn't understand!

I really dislike it when someone bases a series on an archetype they like and so if it doesn't conform to it, its utter crap. I like a wide variety of things, I prefer stories that unfold and hold more secrets the deeper a reader/viewer/listener goes. Seed was blatant all the way through, I could probably predict where things were going from episode one. Gundam 00 is keeping me on my toes, and makes me wonder whats going to happen next.


(ps. Poor, poor Saji crossroads! and I want to know where Patrick is!)

[MorriganAensland]

I agree some people takes these vs. debates WAAAAAY too far. It's especially bad when you have a Grendizer fanboy claiming that 'Dizer can beat Mazinkaiser and use convoluted logic in his claims, going so far as to say that Mazinkaiser was inferior even to even the original Mazinger Z.

What makes certain Gundam shows appeal to me is the subtext of the situation. G Gundam, as goofy and unrealistic as it was, still had a lot of twists and turns in it, which is to be expected when it was directed by the guy that did Giant Robo. Gundam ZZ appealed to me in a lot of ways too, including the fact that for once, the pilot WASN'T naturally gifted. The only reason Judau could make the Zeta Gundam even move at first is he already had plenty of experience with smaller-scale mobile suits, and he also sucked royally in his first sorties. It's not until he finally gets Gundam ZZ he stops making stupid mistakes in every battle (fumbling the beam saber, forgetting to bring ammo with his rifle), and even then he makes a few slip-ups.

I never had too much of an interest in the Seed stories, partly the art design, partly the recap episodes, and partly the fact it was retreading old ground. Destiny MIGHT'VE been good, but it got so watered down and made into the Further Adventures of Jesus Yamato that it wasn't until Super Robot Wars Z did damage control that I respected it.

*blinks* Oh my god! Gundam SEED is really just another piece of Objectivist Propaganda!

[Asher Omega]

Wasn't Grandizer and Mazinkaizer done by the same person (Go Nagai, you old coot you)?

and I was so angry that i messed up who was called a grunt, it wasn't Ali Al, it was another important character though, Colonel Smirnov. but still calling him a grunt is just not right.

and I remember what one person told me what he thought of the second season of Seed reminded him of. a horribly writen fanfic (no offense to fanfic writers, I personally don't care for them). and yes I've heard of the damage control. which is why I'd probably prefer the SRW versions of them. I'd still think the Gundam 00 team could beat the Seed group. namely because they (Double 0) actually acts as a team instead of talented individuals.

I consider G Gundam to be the Super Robot universe of the Gundam series. I mean Fuunsaiki has his own Gundam! doesn't mean I don't like it, but I watch it for the hell of it.

[MorriganAensland]

^_^

Yes, Dizer and Kaiser are made by the same person, and that's where the stigma comes from. In Grendizer, the hero of Mazinger Z (Kouji Kabuto) is given the shaft and demoted to the sidekick for the hero Duke Fleid. Grendizer is also horrendously popular in Europe since it was the first Super Robot anime sent over there... and many people consider Mazinger Z a cheap knock-off. There is also yet to be a SRW game that has Mazinkaiser and Grendizer both, so people argue all the time over which is stronger. The Dizer fans claim Mazinkaiser's nothing more than an unusually powerful Mazinger and unable to keep up with alien technology. The Mazinkaiser fans claim that Grendizer has never been shown to keep up with Shin Getter Robo in the SRW games, whereas Mazinkaiser could fight it to a draw in the story.

I side on the Kaiser side of things, simply because it's been stated in the Mazinkaiser OVAs that Mazinkaiser has the power to surpass any God or Devil. That and Word of God from Nagai himself that Kaiser is the ultimate defensive force in the universe.

And Smirnov's the guy that actually managed to keep up with a Gundam in a basic mech, right? He's no grunt, no grunt! He's the guy with the balls to show that Gundams are not gods and can be beaten through keen tactics.

[Asher Omega]

actually there's three people who've done that in the series. Smirnov who used superior strategies to corner the gundams, Graham Acker (I think this is the person you're thinking of) who's gone against them and beat one down with a normal mech, and lastly Ali Al Sarches who is just plain Magnificent Bassard Class pilot. (and yes he's a Bassard!)

Edit: I changed the word to something similar because friggan word censors.

This post has been edited by Asher Omega: Nov 22 2008, 12:22 AM

[MorriganAensland]

But Bassard's just such a cool word! It makes me think of someone who plays a bass saxophone, and imagining someone busting a solo on one while whaling on a Gundam is just too awesome to ignore!

[Asher Omega]

all of a sudden I'm imagining Midvalley (from Trigun) piloting a gundam that uses a Sax as its weapon. I don't know why.

[MorriganAensland]

You're imagining it because it's *awesome*.