So it turns out there's this show called Angel's Friends, It's from Italy and it took a page from the Winx character designs Options

[MorriganAensland]

So I was reading the "Follow the Leader" page on TV Tropes and it mentioned the show. Now, it turns out this Angel's Friend story originally was a comic book with a bit more gradeschooler-look to the characters, as presented by Exhibit A, seen here. However last year in October, the series (which had then been running for about two years) got a TV deal and, well... see for yourself.

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Now I am not exactly a fan of the Winx Club (inb4 "why are you here then?") and even though I don't like the character designs for it and think that you could snap Bloom's body at the waist if you put your them and index fingers on opposite sides of her body and squeeze, that's really not the point. Winx has a design that's fairly unique and I can spot it right away. This other series's comic had a different style and that's fine too because people shouldn't go into doing character design and try to do something new and amazing when there's no reason not to, unless you're trying to be stylish and cool etc. etc.

I think the thing that bugs me with this is just the idea of trying to ride on one show's popularity when as far as I can tell from this horribly translated page about it on the Italian wikipedia site, they were fairly different stories. Okay, there are some noticeable similarities (like apparently a school and all) but again, from what I've read it at least was something different, most notably the ages of the characters and the exact relationship between two relatively similar magical groups. I almost feel like this is like dumbing down a series and trying to make a few more dollars by riding off of the success of another show rather than setting it up as its own show with own unique merits.

Granted, I'm not against shifting character designs, far from it. Osamu Tezuka's art style was cartoony and reminiscent of the works of Walt Disney, which sometimes clashed with the serious nature of his stories, and when Naomi Urosawa did a remake of the World's Greatest Robot arc in Astro Boy, turning it into Pluto, I freaking loved it. Sure, characters looked different but that was okay. I didn't mind when Urosawa turned Astro from this to this, because the spirit of the character stayed the same and besides, Urosawa would probably be disgracing Tezuka's memory if he tried to emulate Tezuka's style when his own is perfectly solid. Same applies to Saint Seiya's original author, Masami Kurumada, and Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas's author, Shiori Teshirogi. The character designs for Phoenix Ikki from the original series and his 18ths century equivalent, Bennu Kagaho do have some differences, with Shiori's style being much more flowery and shoujo-esque.

I guess the point I'm really trying to make is that art shifts shouldn't be done just for the sake of winning over fans from another fandom. And maybe I'm wrong about Angel's Friends; perhaps they were on a deadline and the only guy they could get was the guy who did the designs for Winx. But I don't feel that's the case.

This post has been edited by MorriganAensland: May 2 2010, 5:49 AM

[Jahnavi]

Yeah, in some of the wider shots, I definitely see a similarity to Winx. The faces actually remind me a bit of W.i.t.c.h., but maybe that's just 'cause of the style in which they've drawn the eyes.
Either way, despite the fact that it may irk the fans of the original shows, legally, this can't be considered plagiarism or something, can it?

This post has been edited by Jahnavi: May 2 2010, 8:15 AM

[P-girl]

Funny enough, the comic page artwork has a LOT in common with both W.I.T.C.H. AND Winx comics.

Meh, I'm not too fond of this thing. Not because I think it's plagiarism, but because I don't like the idea. Angels and Demons..... are a lot more bad*ss and a lot LESS child-friendly in my imagination.

[DeadInside]

Don't know man, Character design is B... I mean, This show's characters designs seems alike the WC but its sightly different... actually at first look the faces looks like some of the characters by Adam Warren... mostly because of the eyes and some of the face expression and some points of the nose... Ofcourse that Warren Key-style are the Lips... and being amazing, so... its not so alike after all, but it reminds it to me... In the body and general drawing style it does look alike the WC... but the truth is that WC's design is not really that unique... Anyone that ever based the body style on Fashion sketches will end up with something alike... but yeah body proportions and shape are very alike... and with the wings and all the stuff... well i think that what really matters is if it was on propose or accidental... even tho, if they were for an alike public and an alike story and i were the designer i would really try to make it as different as the competence i could to prevent critics like this... i don't know

Why am I "defending" this people... well, because it happen to me... in a bad way... so if you find them innocent i would be relief LOL... let me explain.

Sorry, from now on i will go off-topic so fell free to ignore me (as everyone seem to do anyway) and go on with your lives if you want.



I've always write original stories and make "fan comics" (easier name to write) and i like to totally change the Character design from a "show" to another (because of the TV influence as a kid, i see total different character design from a cartoon to another , so i did the same. so, i kept doing that yet today)
The thing is that i was making some "teen" story with a girl as main character and i was sick of drawing manga style and semi realistic Comic style doesn't fit my story (and i've lost practice on that) so i went to explore cartoons... this took a while... i never intend to copy anyone's style but... trying to make something different from what i've done somehow end up on something very alike to a lot of things... i check, study and fan-art some artist to see how they work, then what i learn came out by itself when i were on the drawing board... i base it on old design i made back on 90s... mixed with a "ringu" alike demon girl design that was lying there for a while... and after some attempts i came out with a design i like... when i had a lot of work done the WC were on again after about a year of being off tv, and i was like... wth? i never thought they were so alike! later other guy says "looks like the Girls from the 90's Batman cartoon" and after that it was compared with a large list of things... some that i don't even know.... then i wanted to bury myself... lol

[MorriganAensland]

Hey, that's okay. I'm not really saying it's bad to base art styles of of someone else's so you can get a foothold to work with. Like I said before, Osamu Tezuka's style is VERY reminiscent of Walt Disney's. And that's okay, because it was still Tezuka's art style and he did different things with it.

I just am disappointed that someone derailed one franchise's art style to make it look like another.

[P-girl]

With you on that. Granted, it worked with Transformers, but;
1) Those were seperate continuities
2) There's quite some time in-between those continuities
3) It was obvious this wasn't to tag along on another series' popularity, despite what some detractors said.

[wkw427]

Wow, really?

Reminds me of when we were going haywire when someone found "fasion girls" that just looked like the winx recolored with changed hair. HAH

[MorriganAensland]

I remember that. It was weird.

Anyways, I looked at some of the episodes today. I have to say I'm rather disappointed at them. The art style plus any other expected plot differences from the original material just feel like they stripped any genuine spirit out of the show so as to appeal to Winx fans.

[aqua_pearl]

I see what you mean by the style change...

[wkw427]

Cartoon looks like witch
Comic looks like winx

facepalm

[P-girl]

Strange, for me it's the other way around. I mean, the W.I.T.C.H. characters (In their comic, at least) look a lot younger then the Winx girls. Same goes on here.

[DeadInside]

Ok, now i see what you were talking about....

This is insane, why did they change it? didn't they like it? or they just assume that they will get more public doing it like that?
i hate it... When you work with Money as your first intention nothing good comes out.

Seriously, this people are more "sold-out" than Metallica... d*mn Marketing slaves....

But look at the bright side.... the Logo stay the same LOL
FAIL

[P-girl]

Well, while I don't support this. Why squander creativity just to make a quick buck? (*Hears her own 'Welcome to Capitalism'*)

This post has been edited by P-girl: May 9 2010, 10:40 AM

[RenaEnchantix]

"Angel's Friends" is getting a lot of publicity. I'm subscribed to "Animation Magazine," and i found out about this show maybe...a year ago? There's been adds for both the Angel's Friends tv show and the new Angel's Friends movie, and also an article on the show and the company that's made it. it seems Angel's Friends will soon be appearing on American TV, i'm not 100% sure though.

there's been almost nothing on the Winx Club in the magazine though. there was a small "Happy 10th Birthday Rainbow Studios" thing that took up one fourth of a page with a picture of Bloom, Stella, and Flora in Believix, but that's all. while Winx appears to be pulling away from the american market, Angel's Friends is definitely trying to make a splash.

honestly, I like Angel's Friends. yeah, it looks a lot like Winx Club, but i think it's an interesting idea. Winx is full of plot holes, shoddy animation, and just poor production quality in general. if Angel's Friends can steer clear of these problems, I can definitely see myself loving it more than winx. the relationship between Raf and...the devil guy...is already more interesting than any relationship in Winx Club, and I haven't seen much of the show yet.

[MorriganAensland]

Well, in Winx's defense (OH GOD I'M DEFENDING WINX IT'S FINALLY CORRUPTED ME!), the series originally came out in 2004. Obviously Angel's Friends has the advantage when it comes to animation quality provided they have a decent budget.

I mean, let's compare the CG productions between Kamen Rider Blade (the Kamen Rider series that started in 2004, the same year as Winx began airing) to that of Kamen Rider Double (the KR series that started airing last year).

Blade's:

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And Double's:

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The differences are pretty noticeable when it comes to special effects. And if you wanted I could bring up some animation from similar series (like Gundam SEED Destiny and Gundam 00, which aired in 2004 and 2009 respectively) that proved the same thing.

Plus I'll come out and say that Winx's most recent season, and this is coming from someone who doesn't like it that much, is definitely the best they've done. That doesn't condone having a boring villain in its second season or a trainwreck of a third season, but starting with the movie they obviously were trying their hardest and it's noticeable. It's still not a show meant for me, but I'll give credit where credit is due.

Plus, there's no *need* to retool the designs to be similar to the Winx Club's. Winx is very much steeped in a kinda of technology-laced fantasy story, one that took a few elements from Sailor Moon and dashed in a Magic School idea. Angel's Friends, as far as I can tell, isn't trying to do that (it seems more like the girl's finished whatever equivalent of school she has if anything) and has an entirely different story to tell.

[RenaEnchantix]

I do agree with a lot of what you said. they didn't have to change anything about Angel's Friends, but honestly if they hadn't I would have no interest in the show. the original comic looks cute, but far too immature for my tastes. the show is much more sleek and shiney, far more interesting looking with a lot more appeal.

one thing I have to disagree with is Winx using only a "few" elements from Sailor Moon. the first season of Winx Club is pretty much just the first season of Sailor Moon, but with Hogwarts thrown in. I hate the first season of Winx Club for this reason. Sailor Moon really is the mother of all magical girls, and every magical girl show will inevitably have elements from it, but Winx Club is the most blatant rip-off that's ever been.

[MorriganAensland]

Alright, I was with you for the first paragraph but for the second you lost me.

And now for the sake of fairness I'm going to tell you a story of this anime.

It deals with an age-old guardian of the world. Let's call her Minerva just for the sake of making it exotic. Like Usagi, she's apparently a descendant of a god and she's been known to reincarnate. She is also immensely powerful, able to create miracles when she gathers up the whole of her strength, a strength derived from the stars and celestial bodies in distant space.

Now in the backstory her previous incarnation was involved in a horribly bloody war that involved the death of nearly everyone who fought and served with her, just like what happened in the Silver Millennium. The only silver lining after these battles was that a terrible evil force had been driven away. In the present day, Minerva has a bit of a bad reputation with people that knew her, thinking her to be selfish and incredibly immature in the past, just like how Usagi was in Sailor Moon. However, she's since grown out of it for the most part. The first part of the story deals entirely with gathering together her defenders of this generation, and it's almost appalling how much it rips off of Sailor Moon.

You have the fire-elemental person who obviously doesn't like Minerva that much at first and oftentimes is a total jerk to her. Then you have the polar-opposite character who's fairly intelligent and has ice-themed abilities. Then you have someone who, get this, has an Earth/Electricity theme to their powers just like Sailor Jupiter and can even emulate the dragon thing Jupiter uses occasionally! And then there's when Minerva actually fights, where she has a suit that has RIDICULOUSLY huge wings, not to mention a scepter with a circular top. Plus, her primary defender's voiced by the same guy that voiced Tuxedo Kamen in the Japanese dub of Sailor Moon! It's almost unforgivable, you'd think something this shameless of a rip-off would never air!

And that's not even the worst part! Because later on we meet people that I suppose are meant to be a stand-in for the Outer Senshi. You've got someone like Pluto who very well may not be human, you've got another hot-headed person that uses a ridiculously powerful sword that supposedly can cut through anything, and someone else with an ice/water motif kinda like Neptune's. There's even someone with a whole "Death" element like Sailor Saturn who's a villain at first but in the final act we find out that's not exactly the case and they help out!

And then there's the villains. Holy cow you have someone with split personality just like the one Sailor Senshi from the last arc of Sailor Moon, you've got former guardians who decided to stop serving Minerva (just like the Black Moon Clan who abandoned Crystal Tokyo), you've got the reincarnation of the villain responsible for Minerva's death in her previous life, you've got an evil flutist like the guys in the SuperS movie... I could spend all day citing the villains that were ripped off from Sailor Moon!

And by now you're probably wondering two things. The first is what the name of this horrible, plagiarism-filled show is. The other is what kind of point I'm making. Well then... I suppose it's time to end this charade and come out with the truth.

This show's name is Saint Seiya. It was a shonen manga and anime series that ran from 1986-1991, well before Sailor Moon's first manga chapter was printed. Naoko Takeuchi's even admitted it was a huge inspiration to Sailor Moon and they both stand up on their own merits.

Sailor Moon codified and retooled a kind of shonen story to appeal to the shoujo demographic, but it's not the mother of the Magic Girl genre and it's simply one of the better known over in the states due to being brought over here.

If you want to talk about the mother of the Magic Girl anime, that's Mahou Tsukai Sally. Okay, that only applies to the "magical girlfriend" kind of story that didn't involve fighting and was more lighthearted, but it was still the first. The first Magic Girl series that involved fighting on a consistent basis would be Cutie Honey, another series that Sailor Moon took inspiration from (Honey's ability to change her appearance was the basis for the Disguise Pens).

The lesson to be learned here is Sailor Moon mixed-and-matched previous stories to find its own. And just like the Winx Club the quality of its writing improved as time went on. Okay, this only applied to the manga and not the actual anime, but it's still true.

[RenaEnchantix]

Alright, so maybe Sailor Moon isn't the most original story itself, but that doesn't change the fact that Winx Club is the same exact thing. I was refering mostly to the Silver Crystal/Dragon Fire. the whole show is about finding the girl with the Silver Crystal/Dragon Fire, taking it from her, and using it to take over the world. the lost princess of a lost kingdom is also a huge similarity, however Bloom has a happy ending and revives the old kingdom with her family, whereas Sailor Moon has to build a new kingdom while her old family remain dead.

I'm aware of Cutie Honey, the live action movie is one of my favorites (well, favorite bad films anyways), but i don't accept her as "mother of magical girls." I know she inspired many, but since she's a cyborg who uses technology to change her appearance, I consider her more of a sci-fi girl. a maho shojo version of the show was made, but by the same team Sailor Moon had and was made to replace the show when StarS finally ended. I view Sailor Moon as the mother of magical girls because had she not existed I know we wouldn't have other shows such as Wedding Peach, Mermaid Melody, Tokyo Mew Mew, Precure, Winx Club, etc. I would have never come up with my show, which has become my proudest achievement. We may have still gotten Ojamajo Doremi and Sugar Sugar Rune, but not the awesome super hero magic girls i'm so in love with.

I guess that's more how I view her. not the mother of magical girls, the mother of magical heroines.

ps: thank you for enlightening me. I did not know that Sailor Moon was so similar to Saint Seiya. I knew it existed, but that's about all i knew about Saint Seiya.

[MorriganAensland]

Sailor Moon definitely was influential, yes. And some of the similarities between it and Winx are annoying and I wish the first few seasons had been different, but from an objective stand point I still think Winx's writing has been improving. The fourth season was, well, still straight magic girl fluff, but in a good way.

Also, I guess in comparison to some horror stories I've seen of stealing character designs Winx just doesn't bother me as much anymore.

I mean, there's a *ton* of Korean shows that just stole designs and plots wholesale from anime... one of the most shameless being Space Gundam V, which in spite of its name stole the mech design from a Valkyrie from Macross and had a story that was a rip-off of Raideen.

And then there's Astro Plan, which is just so shameless in stealing character designs, plots, and mechs from Macross and Gundam 00 you have to wonder who would want to watch it.

So yeah, looking at it objectively, Winx could have done a lot worse.

[RenaEnchantix]

Winx definitely could have done worse, i have to agree with you there. it was very refreshing to see a show of this genre without a blond pig-tailed main character...granted the blond-pigtailed character had a huge role, but she wasn't the main character!